Podcast of Doom: Episode 1 (transcript)


[SFX: Podcast of Doom theme music]

JIM DOOM: Hello and welcome to the first ever Podcast of Doom. I am your co-host, Jim Doom.

DOOM DELUISE: And I’m your other co-host, Doom DeLuise. Glad to be here. You look nice. Is that a new shirt?

JD: What shirt?

DD: Oh, my bad. Nice tattoo.

[laughter]

JD: Nevermind that. We have plenty to talk about today, including World War Hulk, World War Three, and to get us started, have you been reading Justice League of America?

DD: Yes, I have.

JD: Well when I was reading Mighty Avengers #1, it made me think about the first 6 issues of Justice League, and how those two books’ way of introducing a new lineup could not have been more different.

One book takes a single issue to introduce the team, the other takes so blasted long you forget there’s an actual story going on. And so much story happens that the simultaneous drama of who makes the team is completely lost.

I realize that Brad Meltzer is going for a different feel, but that first JLA arc just seemed so indulgent that for me, it lost virtually all impact.

So reading Mighty Avengers #1, I was reminded of JLA because Mighty Avengers made me think “THIS is how I want to be introduced to a new team.”

DD: Well, I didn’t much care for Might Avengers. Yeah, they set up a new team real quick-like in one issue, but it just seemed somewhat boring to me, since the eventual team that was put together is pretty, well, boring.

Don’t get me wrong, I like Wonder Man, but the rest of the guys are just lame. And I still haven’t come around to liking Iron Man after his actions in Civil War.

Meanwhile, I think that JLA has been an incredibly fun read. I especially like how, in the last issue of the arc, they show the team dynamics of how they fight together. Granted, this may have been done even better in that issue of Green Lantern a couple months back, but it gave me the feeling that these guys are the A-Listers, and together, you’d be hard pressed to find a villain in the world who could take them down.

JD: I do think that Brad Meltzer has a really good handle on how to use characters’ unique aspects and write with those as a tool rather than just something that has to be acknowledged, and I especially got that sense in the past few issues. It was just moving so slowly I just had to look back to previous issues to remind myself what was going on.

DD: I think that had a lot to do with the fact that it was so heavily delayed.

JD: And I don’t like anybody in the Mighty Avengers, and I dislike some of them. But I’m intrigued by how they’re going to build these guys into an A-list team. And I also like how the Sentry’s super-power was addressed.

Speaking of not liking Tony Stark, did you read Civil War: The Confession?

DD: Nope. I read the preview on the Internets and was so bored by those three or four pages that I didn’t feel like dropping the money.

Did Iron Man confess he’s gay?

[laughter]

JD: there are going to have to be some amazing books to come out for that to not be my vote for best issue of 2007. Just such a strong issue. In New Avengers, Mighty Avengers and Confession, Bendis is doing a great job of tying up the logical loose ends of Civil War.

For a while there, it was like a Marvel book couldn’t have a cliffhanger or anything remotely dissonant without critics jumping on them saying that this and that doesn’t make sense, is out of character, is contradictory, etc., crying editorial failures left and right. Regardless of whether these stories were planned or drafted in hindsight, things are being tied together to make sense. And considering these books are written months in advance, the evidence points to a thought-out plan.

So it’s a good time to be a Marvel fan, in my opinion. Unless you like Aunt May, I guess.

DD: Well, let’s talk about being a Marvel fan for a minute. Do you think Marvel, through trying to finally make a crossover that “counts,” has put themselves in a bit of a jam? It seems that they’ve really muddled up their continuity so that it would be hard to jump in if you haven’t been reading for awhile. I guess they’re addressing this with the Ultimates line, and they’ve got a “Classic Avengers” ongoing starting in June, but, I don’t know. Do you think they’re oversaturating the market again?

JD: What continuity problems do you see? I see that as being a different issue than oversaturation.

DD: You’re right. It is. I just got off on a different subject when I started talking.

JD: Well then let’s take them one at a time.

DD: Let’s take the continuity one first. The problems are that you’ve got a Spider-Man who refuses to register, a Captain America who’s dead, a Punisher who seems to be changing his look and attitude sometime soon, not to mention all the upcoming business with the Hulk. Plus, each state has its own super-powered super-group to look after them. And, oh yeah, the Fantastic Four is all broken up. Not to say there’s a mistake or anything in their continuity, but do you think it’s a problem when looking at it from an outsider’s perspective who wants to get into Marvel comics? I mean, gosh, where would you begin?

JD: Well, I guess I see that as almost the opposite of how you do. With the 50-state initiative, that seems like a great time to get in, because many of those heroes are going to be new to most long-time readers.

DD: By the way, if Civil War hadn’t so drastically changed everything, I’d be complaining about that, too.

JD: And I don’t really see those other things as continuity issues – just that things have to change over time or they become stale. There have been many times in the past where the FF wasn’t the original four.

I think if anything, Civil War just gave them a good reason to change things.

Now, on a slightly different note, this doesn’t affect my enjoyment of the books at all, but I just don’t like how there are 2 avengers books. I’d rather see something like the Iron Man gang be in “New Avengers,” and then have the rest of them move off into another team book. Like revive the Defenders or something, since Dr. Strange is in it.

I don’t really know anything about the purpose of the Defenders, like if that’s at all appropriate for the illegal gang, but I just wish they weren’t Avengers.

I just don’t like having 2 avengers books. And the New Avengers team just seems so much more sneaky and tough and gritty that they should be something that’s not Avengers related, because I just have kind of a squeaky clean association with the Avengers name.

DD: Yeah, me too. Now, let’s say you’re a new fan or somebody who hasn’t read any Avengers in a long time. You walk into the comic shop this summer, and what do you see? Maybe five or six different Avengers titles? Which do you pick up? Or, let’s say you’ve heard good things about Marvel through all of this Civil War business, so you decide to jump in at this point. In three months, there’s another mega-huge-world-changing crossover. Do you think that World War Hulk, plus the numerous new titles that have come about after Civil War are, in a way, flooding the market? I sure do.

JD: I don’t think those books are flooding the market as much as books like Wolverine: Origin are. Those books at least have a reason to be there. Wolverine: Origin is just “Let’s make more money off Wolverine.” And I think books like that are more dangerous in market-flooding terms.

There is a justification for two Avengers teams; I just don’t like that one of them is called The Avengers. There is a justification for books to cover the expansion teams.

DD: I agree with you on that. Now, World War Hulk. Thoughts?

JD: I think it’s unfortunate that the Hulk stuff is coming so soon after Civil War. Obviously Marvel initially thought there was going to be more time between the two. I wonder how tied their hands were on the WWH scheduling. Ideally Civil War really would have more time to sink in before the Hulk hits the fan.

DD: Well, when it all hits in June, it looks like we’re going to have seven issues that month, according to the solicits, that involve the WWH stuff, including the main title, drawn by JR Jr, hooray, and, yet, in the same month, the Captain America story-arc involving his death still won’t be finished. When the dust isn’t settled on one giant crossover, it’s hard to get fans interested in buying into another huge one. Which is a problem not exclusive to Marvel, for the record.

Just look at DC. They’re wrapping up 52 and jumping right into Countdown, which will bring us into another huge world-shaking crossover once the count reaches zero, presumably.

JD: One thing that really excited me about Infinite Crisis was my perception that when it all wrapped up, we’d get to enjoy several years of just proper standard monthly comics. The backdrop would be different, and so having regular monthly comics would be fresh and new because we’d see how traditional stories would play out with tweaked settings.

So it’s like What’s the point of getting invested in the new status quo if it’s just going to be constantly shaken up?

The premise of WWH is that Hulk comes back from space and is really angry, right?

DD: Exactly. I guess the reason I’m a bit less critical of DC is because, while 52 and Countdown are going along, the rest of the universe is just telling regular old stories, which is nice. But, oh, yes, the premise of WWH is that Hulk got exiled by the Illuminati awhile back, which led to Planet Hulk, the spectacularly boring story-arc that he’s been going through over the past year, where he started out as a slave and worked his way into being a king. Well, now he’s gotten a way home, and he’s all mad and stuff.

JD: so what planet has he been on? how did they send him there? and when he comes back, why don’t they just send him back?

DD: Good question, good question, and an even better question. I’ve only read maybe three or four of the issues, so I don’t know. My roommate keeps up on it, and he explained it to me one night when we were drunk, and it sounded really boring.

JD: I’ve liked the Hulk at times, and as someone who really liked 300, I’m intrigued by the idea of Hulk stomping around the Marvel Universe yelling and trashing everything he sees. I’m just a little out of the loop as to how it’s all going to happen.

DD: Oh, hey, speaking of 300 did you see that interview on the Internet with Zack Snyder about Watchmen?

JD: nope.

DD: He mentioned that he’s moving forward on Watchmen, that he’s pushing for an R-rating, and that the main king dude from 300 is going to have a starring role. As who, we don’t know yet, but he’s in it.

JD: sweet.

DD: Oh, and, speaking of comic book movies, have you heard about the Bruce Timm stuff that’s going on in DC?

JD: nope.

DD: The Death of Superman, New Frontier, and Teen Titans: Judas Contract are all being worked on to be released this year on Direct-to-DVD format.

DD: And Bruce Timm is in charge of it all. Here, I printed this out for you.

[sounds of paper shuffling.]

[ed. note: here’s a link]

DD: That’s a really great interview with him about it.

JD: wow. I will have to read that later. Otherwise we’ll have dead air for a while.

DD: Yeah.

JD: Um.

DD: Man, is it cold in here?

JD: So what else is going on comic land?

DD: From what I hear, Man on the Street is angried up about the price-point on Countdown. It’s going up a half dollar an issue from 52.

JD: oh that stinks. Are you going to try Countdown?

DD: Hell yeah. I’m excited about it.

JD: I liked buying a weekly comic, and I’ve enjoyed 52, but I do feel a little 52 fatigue.

DD: You need a little 52 Pick-UP

[laughter]

JD: And I don’t care about Mary Marvel and Jimmy Olson.

DD: I didn’t care about Ralph Dibny or Renee Montoya, either.

JD: touche.

JD: And is World War Hulk going on at the same time as World War Three?

DD: Nope. WW3 will be sooner.

JD: ok. Because I was just thinking “Where have I heard of a badass character unleashing on the rest of the world…that seems familiar…starts with a ‘World War’…”

DD: Don’t you think it’s weird that, OYL, nobody’s like, “Boy, that WW3 that just happened sure was rough!” ‘Cuz it seriously happens like two weeks before the OYL pick-up

JD: yeah, when I heard about OYL, I thought there was going to be a lot more ambiguity about what really happened in that missing year, as opposed to just a year’s worth of stories that don’t really relate to anyone other than those who star in them, which really could have just existed alongside the rest of the DCU.

DD: I think they originally intended to fit more stuff in about the missing year, but got sidetracked on different tangents, hence the Nightwing Annual, etc

JD: so while I’ve enjoyed the story in 52, I think it has drastically diminished any impact of jumping forward a year. Like you alluded to, the most intriguing stories haven’t even appeared in 52!

In hindsight, I think I’d have preferred they just not bother with jumping ahead a year, and then just had 52. Fortunately, 52 has been good enough that I think people might be forgetting how it was supposed to tie into IC and OYL.

DD: I’m planning on re-reading all of my OYL stuff after 52 is over and talking about all the stuff that’s not mentioned.

JD: I’m looking forward to reading that.

DD: Even though I really like 52.

JD: Yeah, like I constantly said with Civil War stuff, you can’t fault a story for the hype a PR machine gives it.

DD: You said that?

[laughter]

JD: Did you see that interview with Greg Rucka?

DD: Nope.

JD: about 52?

DD: Maybe? What’s he say?

JD: Here, I printed it out for you.

[sound of paper shuffling]

[ed. note: here is a link]

DD: And who’s Greg Rucka?

[laughter]

JD: He talks about some of his frustrations with writing 52 (and the good things), but he was really irked by Dan Didio giving away the “secret of 52.”

DD: Oh, yeah. Why’d Dan Didio do that?

JD: Dan DiDio is DC’s Joe Quesada, isn’t he? The fat guy the comic companies hire to say stupid things?

DD: Anyway, what are you buying this week?

JD: This week I’m picking up 52, Aquaman 50, because it’s the book of doom, Brave and the Bold 2, Detective 830, JSA 4, Spirit 4, Godland 17, X-Factor 17 and John Romita Jr 30th anniversary special.

DD: So you’ve been reading JSA?

JD: Yeah. That book really irritates me though. I hate Starman’s babbling.

DD: Yeah, no kidding.

JD: I hate cute references to 52. I hate contrived efforts to tie teenagers in with Golden Age heroes.

But I still read that book. I guess its necessary to tie in some teenagers when the premise is that someone’s trying to kill off all the descendants of JSA past.

DD: Is it just me, or was the first page of issue one kind of weird and unnecessary? It was just a full splash-page of World War 3 with the JSA running around.

JD: I dont even remember that. Maybe DC figured, like you, that there should be SOME acknowledgement of WW3, and JSA was the last OYL book to get launched.

DD: More than likely.

I think the new Flash issue comes out this week. For some reason, I keep buying that hoping for something to happen.

JD: yeah. has that gotten any better?

DD: No. But Didio says that Barry Allen is The Flash from that Countdown hype picture, so, who knows? Maybe something will happen. Damnit! This is what I’m talking about!

JD: Well, I hate to cut you off, but we’re just about to 15 minutes, so I guess we need to wrap this up.

[sfx: Podcast of Doom outro music begins]

DD: But wait, i really want to say

JD: Save it for next week – we’re out of time.

DD: No but just

[SFX: Music fade out]